I've always wondered about some strange MIDI files found on the Chex CD. I think it's time for me to finally work on shedding some light on this.
The files can be found in E[or whatever your CD directory is]:\MACINTOS\BONUS\MUSIC. I've also uploaded them here (http://www.chexquest.org/chexquestgallery/other/MIDI%20music%20files.zip) for your convenience. They won't play in either Windows Media Player or QuickTime, and XWE won't accept them as either valid MIDI files or valid MUS files. There's also a file at F:\MACINTOS\README.TXT that describes the music like this:
Quote from: README.TXT
Also, you will find a folder of MIDI music files. Place these files into
the Music folder within your Doom Folder. Again, make sure you make
a backup copy of each duplicate MIDI music file, or these will replace
the original MIDI music files.
The files were obviously meant to be played with the original Doom engine (or possibly Doom 95). However, I just can't get anything out of them.
Can anybody here help me solve yet another Chex Quest puzzle?
Hm, very interesting. I must take a look at this. I'll see if I can get it working.
Maybe the answer is in the Macintosh Doom. Where on EARTH do you find that? (If you can get me a link, I know how to get a Mac System 7 emulated enough to run Marathon (so doom should be fine).
They are most likely just OLD Mac encoded. A new Quicktime wouldn't work, and as I said, I could probably get a System 7 up. (its free and legal, AFAIK)
Also, they arent being detected as normal .MIDs...Something is different with these. (BTW, I'm using XMPlay with the MIDI plugin with soundfont output)
Quote from: Atariangamer on April 27, 2009, 04:03:54 PM
Maybe the answer is in the Macintosh Doom. Where on EARTH do you find that? (If you can get me a link, I know how to get a Mac System 7 emulated enough to run Marathon (so doom should be fine).
The CD I was referring to was the Chex Quest CD. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough. Read the first post again on details where these files can be found.
I think he was wondering where you can find Macintosh DooM, in order to see if the music is playable with that.
Whoops. Yeah, I think you're right. I really didn't know that there WAS a Macintosh Doom until just now. So, I'm to take it that these "MIDI" files are actually for the Macintosh, were provided only for the Macintosh Doom, and can't be used on Windows in a normal or productive way?
Well, seeing as CQ was available for the mac (on the same cd, it even had installation instructions on the sleeve), it can be assumed that DooM was as well.
I'm not really sure whether we can open 'em in Windows, but if anyone knows how, it's Atari.
Personally, I think the files are corrupted. :-\
Quote from: Replica on April 28, 2009, 08:38:00 AM
Personally, I think the files are corrupted. :-\
What would be the point of putting corrupted files on a cd? Don't you think they would test they stuff out beforehand?
Well, they did mess up the names of the Flemoids on the original website.
Hey guys, I downloaded the files Manny uploaded and was able to make this!
How in the big blue wet thing did you manage to make THAT? Instructions, if you care?
EDIT: That's actually Strife's cq_final.mid. I'll kick teh bucket if that's actually what the first of those strange MIDIs sound like.
O_o So its fake...
But I found a Doom Shareware for mac made in 1997...but IDK if thats it or not. I *KNOW* I saw it earlier...
Quote from: WikipediaMac OS
The Ultimate Doom and Doom II were released in 1995 by GT Interactive using a Mac OS launcher application to run original PC WADs. The Mac version only runs on Mac OS System 7 through 9.
Bingo...But where on earth is the actual file!
And for those wondering, here's how. (http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/basilisk_ii_setup)
Quote from: Manny Cav on April 28, 2009, 09:46:50 PM
How in the big blue wet thing did you manage to make THAT? Instructions, if you care?
EDIT: That's actually Strife's cq_final.mid. I'll kick teh bucket if that's actually what the first of those strange MIDIs sound like.
Quote from: Atariangamer on April 28, 2009, 10:12:33 PM
O_o So its fake...
But I found a Doom Shareware for mac made in 1997...but IDK if thats it or not. I *KNOW* I saw it earlier...
Quote from: WikipediaMac OS
The Ultimate Doom and Doom II were released in 1995 by GT Interactive using a Mac OS launcher application to run original PC WADs. The Mac version only runs on Mac OS System 7 through 9.
Bingo...But where on earth is the actual file!
And for those wondering, here's how. (http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/basilisk_ii_setup)
So you found me out! XD But i didn't actually say I used any of the files to make the video. ;)
LOL
And btw...
found it (http://www.emaculation.com/macfiles/doom.hqx)
Now I gotta get the CQ ISO again...or can someone with a heart upload the MACINTOS folder?
UPDATE: 2 things...
1. Richie said he'll upload the MACINTOS directory to the Gallery. So thats covered.
2. I just thought of something. SHAREWARE DOESN"T LET YOU PLAY MODS! Unless...placing a full DOOM.WAD in the same directory will fix it...
I tried running those MIDI files on my Performa 6220CD and they didn't work. If an actual Macintosh from that time doesn't play them I don't know what will. Of course Mac OS 8 is really finicky about running files so if I actually had the chex quest CD (or an image of it) I might be able to get it to play.
That said there is probably nothing overly special about them. The macintosh version of Doom had all of the music in a separate folder named "music". Interestingly the Macintosh version of the Ultimate Doom included the music from Doom 2. (Maybe so the PC version can be used on the Mac?)
You can find the full Chex Quest CD at my website. Just go here (http://www.chexquest.org/chexquestgallery/downloads/#Chex_Quest_Full_CD).
OK, I just finished the installl of 7.5.3 and the upgrade to 7.5.5.
I've sucessfully run Mac Doom (works VERY ODD, you wont believe the control scheme...no arrow keys or shift, IJKL and F, with Space. ><
But the music is definetly different. If I can get CQ running good enough, I'll load up a sound recorder or something...
BTW, Richie found that MACINTOS is pretty big...Hes now trying to Upload to MediaFire. I should get results soon...
It's big because it also happens to contain the Chex Quest videos and an old version of QuickTime, if I'm not mistaken.
...Chex Quest played fine. Sounds and all. But the MIDI didn't. I'm going to try that Quicktime, if its there...mebe the new version will work.
Otherwise, Mebe there's a way to reverse engineer MIDIs...
UPDATE:
I think its corrupt. ><
All of the QuickTime files are broken, all of the text files unreadable.
I will try to get another Quicktime, but IDK...The DOOM music didn't have any trouble.
Quote from: Atariangamer on April 28, 2009, 11:24:14 PM
...Chex Quest played fine. Sounds and all. But the MIDI didn't. I'm going to try that Quicktime, if its there...mebe the new version will work.
Otherwise, Mebe there's a way to reverse engineer MIDIs...
UPDATE:
I think its corrupt. ><
All of the QuickTime files are broken, all of the text files unreadable.
I will try to get another Quicktime, but IDK...The DOOM music didn't have any trouble.
Wow, you're really making some progress. Hey, if you get the sound recorder to work, would you be able to PM me itunes playable versions so I can post them on the youtube chex music chanel?
Yeah, I'd say its corrupted. Quicktime 4.0.3 detects them as playable, but for 0:00 seconds.
So...IDK.
Wait....but didn't you say the music was different, Atari? So did you get to hear them, and just not play them on their own?
No, sorry for being kinda vague...
The music for DooM was kinda different. It had what felt like planned breaks in the song. The intro music didn't do it, and no other sounds do it, so I guess it was planned. Also, the instrument set was NOTHING like i've heard before.
Due to this, I was thinking that MAYBE the CQ music was a little different, be it caused by the engine or programed into the song. Its most likely not, tho.
BTW, Manny, you were talking about quality being lost and the like...But how? MUS called up OPL or some other type of wavetable synthesis, why should changing the container of this data make it any different? If it calls for Instrument 5, Note 245, Velocity 86, Pitch +15%, Legnth 45, what difference does it make if a MIDI file calls it up?
I've never noticed any difference, EXCEPT for the sound. Emulated OPL and older Wavetables do sound different, but a new wavetable, called by any format, sounds the same. What should I be looking for as differences?
The worst MUS corruption I've ever seen was a 50% slash off of the tempo. Even at that, converting a MIDI file to MUS and back doesn't recreate the original MIDI file. Doom Wiki (http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/MUS) also says that there are other restrictions on the MUS format. MUS is not a completely lossless conversion.
AH. I thought MUS came first. FAIL ON MY PART ><
I'm assuming you saw this. (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=5770) Maybe if we could find a way to extract the data in something that resembles that format...maybe we could try to salvage the parts and transplant it into an existing MUS and try to listen?
UPDATE: Bad news.
Quote from: Anvil Studio Support
Sorry, but this is not a MIDI song file, even though someone gave it the
.MID filename extension.
Unless they didn't check for MUS possibilities, that shuts down ALOT.
When in doubt ask Chukker!
I could almost be certain Manny has asked, but I'll wait till he confirms this (and he has better ways with words than I do, so he'd better do it XD)
But I wouldn't think the artist would have much to do with the final production/music aspects...
Quote from: Atariangamer on April 29, 2009, 04:58:03 PM
I'm assuming you saw this. (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=5770) Maybe if we could find a way to extract the data in something that resembles that format...maybe we could try to salvage the parts and transplant it into an existing MUS and try to listen?
I haven't seen that. My mission was not to decode the MUS format (I just knew it was different), but to try to see if there was a way to play these files.
Quote from: Atariangamer on April 29, 2009, 06:16:52 PM
I could almost be certain Manny has asked, but I'll wait till he confirms this (and he has better ways with words than I do, so he'd better do it XD)
I haven't asked Chukker. This is more of a "drooben" (Andrew Benson) question than a "Chukker" question.
Okay, when in doubt, ask Drooben!
Hey, Atari, I want to test those Mac Doom MIDI files out for myself and see what I can make of them. Could you link me to a download?
Well, if they're corrupted beyond play, hand recovery may be necessary.
But ask both of them. They both might know a bit.
Chukker browses the forums enough to notice something like this, but I think drooben might need a ring.
You rang? (Thanks for the heads' up, Manny.)
Hey All,
I'm not sure what those MIDI files are. My best guess is that they are empty "placeholder" files that were never replaced or used. It is entirely possible that by not replacing those with actual music, something doesn't play when it's supposed to in a certain setup. To put it lightly, the Q/A period on this was pretty brief and I'm sure things got missed. Or, maybe it was just an unneeded leftover from DOOM.
Having said that, you all know more about the ins and outs of the code than I do. The process for submitting music was -- once I had a final track, I'd send it to the programmers to place with the appropriate level. Beyond that superficial understanding of how the music actually got into the game, I couldn't tell you :)
Good Rickroll, though.
Andrew
Ah well, but thanks for answering!
Ha ha, Rickroll. :D So, I'm taking this to mean that the files are junk...?
You wouldn't know because you couldn't watch Flurb's video. It plays 10 seconds of CQ style music. Then starts playing Never Going To Give You Up Rick Astley, and the CQ guy says you got rickrolled then starts singing along with the lyrics. :P
You just saved my bacon.
Lucikly, I didn't get caught, as I knew he was doing it. :P
*edit* 3000th post FTW!
Ha, lol. That was a good rickroll.
Quote from: TheMasterOfBattle on April 30, 2009, 11:19:49 AM
*edit* 3000th post FTW!
Finally... :D
Hehe.
BTW, Cav...I missed your post about wanting to try the Macintosh Doom. It'll take a while to get archived and uploaded, but it'll be worth it. Its a REALLY different experience. But if you have...a day or two to wait, I can get it to ya.
I just thought of a few things (not to aid the MIDI revocary, but to better the Mac CQ experince)...
I'll add a doom wad to the directory (so you can have a comparison), and I'll put in a set of 4 MUSIC folders:
1. CQ CD MIDs *BROKEN, AFAIK*
2. CQ CD MIDs *named in the WAD format (e.g. D_E1M1)*
3. CQ WAD MUSs *named in the format of the CD MIDs*
4. CQ WAD MUSs *named in the WAD format*
5. CQ MIDI CONVERTS *named in the WAD format*
6. CQ MIDI CONVERTS *named in the format of the CD MIDs*
You can then switch them in and out per needed test.
Also, I'll give ya a quick tutorial in how to actually use the emulator and how to get stuff going.
Quote from: Manny CavThey won't play in either Windows Media Player or QuickTime, and XWE won't accept them as either valid MIDI files or valid MUS files.
If they are midi files, try using Modplug Tracker[/quote]. If they are MUS files, then I do not believe that will not help. (http://lpchip.com/modplug/viewtopic.php?t=18)
try winamp or VLC player, they play all sorts of weird formats
Winamp is great for IMF files (such as those used in Commander Keen 4-6), although I think that I found the latest plug-in for that a tad bit odd in comparison to some earlier ones. I have also had no success in converting thtem to wav files. It appears that I will have to do a Bing search on that one after submitting this.
I mentioned this to my brother a couple days ago, and all he said is that they definitely aren't Midi files.
Quote from: Atariangamer on April 29, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
Also, the instrument set was NOTHING like i've heard before.
I converted some midis to wav for my very dead project, chex quest 2d, using itunes. a few of the instruments were different, and i'm guessing it's itunes' instrument set, because when i played thim in WMP, they were fine. the differences were barely noticeable, tho, except the end of e1m4. i might upload it later. not sure what this means in relation to the mac doom
Quote from: Manny Cav on April 27, 2009, 12:21:39 AM
I've also uploaded them here (http://www.chexquest.org/chexquestgallery/other/MIDI%20music%20files.zip) for your convenience.
I can't open the link without error 404.
Quote from: CHEX_MAN on February 10, 2011, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Manny Cav on April 27, 2009, 12:21:39 AM
I've also uploaded them here (http://www.chexquest.org/chexquestgallery/other/MIDI%20music%20files.zip) for your convenience.
I can't open the link without error 404.
Yeah, the CQ Gallery has been moved around a few times; it's currently at gallery.xboltz.net (http://gallery.xboltz.net). Prolly have to ask Xbolt to find those files though.
Hum... That file isn't in the archive Manny sent me.