Last night in the chat QuadrumpusGuy and I were talking about possibly combining all 5 original levels into one level, and you just play straight through, but I knew that you couldn't really do it without doing invisible teleporting because the levels would have to overlap somewhat. So then I had to figure out how they would overlap and whether the whole place would be possible. So as a first step I took screenshots of each level in Doom Builder and then overlayed each one on top of each other, lining up the exit of one level with the entrance on the next, and this is what I came up with:
(http://dan.timpeterson.org/pictures/overlap_sm.png)
Cyan is E1M1, Yellow is E1M2, Green is E1M3, Red is E1M4, and Blue is E1M5. As you can see, they overlap quite a bit. But I wasn't satisfied with that, so I made quick 3D models of each level in Google Sketchup, and assembled them:
(http://dan.timpeterson.org/pictures/3D-1_sm.png)
(http://dan.timpeterson.org/pictures/3D-2_sm.png)
(note that in this one, E1M1 is blue and E1M5 is cyan and just a flat plane because it's so complicated and doesn't overlap much anyway)
Unfortunately, they don't quite work together, which saddened me. :'( However, with just a few modifications, it does work. First of all, I had to lower the two teleport-to storage areas in E1M2 down a little bit, but that's not much of a problem. The main problem is that E1M2 and E1M3 clash, so in order for them to coexist, you would need a lift between the exit of E1M2 and the entrance of E1M3:
(http://dan.timpeterson.org/pictures/3D-3_sm.png)
But overall, this whole thing does work rather well, which is surprising, since I don't know if they planned it that much. There is that big beginning elevator in E1M4, which does assure that you get up to above ground, though. And interestingly, the labs are the lowest part of the the facility, even lower than the caverns, which means that the whole place must be built into the side of a mountain, with the arboretum and spaceport the only outdoor (or windowed) areas.
Ooh, wow, I never thought about combining all the levels. I like that.
Sounds interesting... but it is a modder's 3Dfloor nightmare!
Unless you did magic teleportation to an identical room in the same map to make it possible...
And you wanted to combine E3M5 with E3M4 so you just enter the flemoid spaceship and keep playing.... E3M5 does not fit inside the one in E3M4. XD
they don't have to be necessarily stacked. there could be halls, teleporters, etc. connecting some portions. You could do it all. But if you wanted to do it stacked, yeah, 3d floor/stacked sectors would come in handy.
u can see the sky in some parts of E1M5...
but still, awesome idea!
Quote from: LAZ Trooper on October 22, 2010, 12:24:30 AM
Unless you did magic teleportation to an identical room in the same map to make it possible...
And you wanted to combine E3M5 with E3M4 so you just enter the flemoid spaceship and keep playing.... E3M5 does not fit inside the one in E3M4. XD
Ask me about that. I can actually do that quite easily, and it will seem flawless, as if you just walked in.
I had this idea long ago...and I ran into the same problems (and me being next to nothing with mapping, quit).
Its a cool idea, and would really raise the difficulty of the game.
then we just do this with each game, put it into 3 levels, and you're done!
I wonder what all 3 games in one level would be like...XD
One problem with actually building them stacked would make your map so confusing. And lighting differences could be tricky.
Also, you would either have to rotate E1M1 45 degrees, which would mean adjusting flats, or rotate the rest of the levels 45 degrees, which would be even more work. ::)
Well, I wondered...
it'd be an amazing undertaking, but why not remap the whole thing?
Draw out a good blueprint of the facilities, figure how its in the mountain or change some features to make it all fit, then map it out.
I'll break out the gridpaper and see if I can't figure something like this out.
I was actually thinking of doing a mod of some sort that updates/improvs the old levels, like it's the future and things have been improved. Like adding more rooms, different textures, that sort of stuff.
Quote from: ChexCommander on October 22, 2010, 05:44:41 PM
I wonder what all 3 games in one level would be like...XD
how would you connect bazoik to Ralston?
Quote from: noob1234 on October 23, 2010, 02:08:05 AM
Quote from: ChexCommander on October 22, 2010, 05:44:41 PM
I wonder what all 3 games in one level would be like...XD
how would you connect bazoik to Ralston?
I dunno, that's a good question. Intergalactic transportation? XD
Quote from: ChexCommander on October 23, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: noob1234 on October 23, 2010, 02:08:05 AM
Quote from: ChexCommander on October 22, 2010, 05:44:41 PM
I wonder what all 3 games in one level would be like...XD
how would you connect bazoik to Ralston?
I dunno, that's a good question. Intergalactic transportation? XD
A stacked/3d floor area of space. stretching for 1000's of units
just a random thought from a person who hasnt opened doom builder in quite a while. why couldnt we just connect them all on a linear level. just replace the switches at the end of each level with a door that went straight into the next level. just a thought.
That's what I was thinking of. Or a hallway, teleporter, elevator, etc.
I feel like teleporters would be kind of cheap, though. Elevators/doors/hallways would be way cooler, imo.
yeah. Less teleporters. Perhaps don't even add in the small boxes you start in on E1M2, E1M3, E1M4, and E1M5? (For E1M4, merge the elevator with the final room of E1M3)
Like I said, if you want to go with the hallway/door/elevator idea, just tell me. I know a way to use (not really teleporters) to make it seem like your actually going from one place to another. Seemlessly. Like its really connected.
Arch's The Lost Quest is like that.
The lost quest goes from level to level. This is supposed to be all one level. Picture it this way: pretend Zdoom/GZDoom/whatever you use can do multiple floors quite easily. You then actually put the floors vertically like in the diagram. Well, I can make it seem like its like that, without switching the level, having the teleporter lag time/noise/graphic, or anything like that.
Yeah, I've seen stuff like that. If you want to do this, go ahead. (but make sure you include an elevator of proper height between E1M2 and E1M3 ;) )
wait, is this project being designated to me? Wow, I think I must have over exaccerated my point. X_X
Oh well, maybe next week, or the end of this week, I can get this done...
Well this was never really anything more than a discussion of it and how it could be done, so there's no real rush or obligation or anything to do it. ::)
I was working on this for a few minutes a minute ago, and i've got E1M1 and E1M2 connected. Just need to make the keys you have on the two levels get taken away when going between them. And then have the appropiate keys given back to you when you go back. XD
This sounds like a great idea. One problem I'd find though is, I like to play the game on nightmare with respawning flemoids and the hardest settings possible. And when its like that they respawn and start hunting me down. Now imagine if I killed all in e1m1 then by the end I'd have a whole swarm of them to fight off. Now really relating to hat the main topic is about but just something to think about XD
hrmmm...
good point, i really have no idea how to fix that. anyone?
put block monsters on all the doors leading to the next area