In the CQ3 topic, some discussions were being thrown around about moving CQ out of the DooM engine and into something higher quality. Manny brought up a Doom3 engine, Replica holds fast to GZDooM, I'm suggesting Quake or Half Life (but quake will be the easier mod, by far). So, thoughts on this, materials, programs (like sourceports and data files/editors), and junk like that would go here...
Just told this to TMOB and TGA...here it is:
Quake would be very possible, as we have mebe one or two modelers...and the maps arent that hard to make, but they are fairly complex...but makin straight/enhanced CQ levels is no prob.
The reason I'd rather have a HL mod is the fact that it has cutscenes, dialogue, and other things that can make it more puzzle like, and therefore awesome. It also has a simpler architecture, and has more advanced activation, making it a sure thing for an epic story line. Also, it has a better lighting system, and has ways to be upgraded into highres via packs. It also uses skeleton animation for models, not frames that get smoothed (like in GZDooM/Quake). It would be much better.
While quake would be the easier to mod, Half Life would produce the better results, and could provide a HUGE stepping stone into a Source remake of it, which would really gain the attention of more games, bringing Chex Quest more publicity
Half-Life 2
*covers self with lead shield for nucular bombs are exploding*
I'm still with GZDoom. GZdoom has hires compatbility, and pesonally, I don't really think models are good unless its doom 3 good. No one here has the ability (besides Chucker) to make good models anyways.
Chex Quest - Doom = Nooooooooooooooo!!!
GZDooM is the best choice, No models, ever!
Thats where I stand. ^^
gzdoom
please, no quake.
Quote from: Nomekop on October 06, 2008, 05:49:46 PM
Half-Life 2
*covers self with lead shield for nucular bombs are exploding*
You must be a Republican.
It's Nuclear. Seriously.
I'm suggesting something either from scratch or that is open-source, a la Doom (it's imperative we don't use anything that requires one to have another game that costs money). I'm pretty sure Quake is open source. I'm not so sure about Half-Life. There is no reason to make an enhanced GZDoom version, since that is what The Ultimate Chex Quest is going to eventually be, anyway.
...><
from my research, Quake is fully opensourced. It has no tools for story implementation, so I'm gonna say thats out. Half Life has development kits, and with a bit of tweaking it could be ran standalone. I agree about the GZDooM thing, as TUCQ is basically an enhanced version. What I'm saying is something more like what VioFlem is trying to be: a full story, with the same ideals and basics, set in the CQ universe, in a new engine. Who says we have to leave the main story, but enhance it, extend it, high define it, and such.
(what I've noticed is that TMOB, BC, and TGA all support me on this, but all else is no go)
Now, a nice looking mod IS capable in GZDooM...several ZDooM mods and TCs have fully utilized scripting, models, highresolution, and so forth. But IMO, the mapping is the main limitation. Can you make a nice door like the one in the CQ Intro? not really. Can you do bright mapping? slightly. Can you do 3d model NPCs? barely. how about regular NPCs, with activation? not much.
GZDooM would restrict it to just that. Doom. with something more flexible, more is possible. I really DONT wanna get into the source engine, as that takes a good bit to make work. a page I found is here (http://botman.planethalflife.gamespy.com/MOD_FAQ.shtml). It shows that the "GoldSource" Half Life engine can be modified to do most anything. It just requires maps, models, and C++ coded DLLs to help the engine interpret how to use and activate the models and maps. TMOB knows C++, and could help us when the time came. Chukker (if in on this project) could help us with graphics, and the Slimeinator could help if Chuck wasn't available. mapping in BSP isn't that hard, though it takes awhile to get the generics down hard enough to get results. However, I did make a simple map or two in 4 hours after opening up the editor for the first time. I see great potential here.
Now, a gzdoom project would be possible...but it would have to be totally different from TUCQ, which will be hard as all that he is doing is dressing it up, like we want to. But thats not entirely what I envision. I am thinking of placing the CQ universe and cannon storyline into a Half Life like atmosphere and situation:
The experimental teleporter goes bad when you place the test object into it, and it inverts the two dimensions (cereal and flem) for a few seconds. In that time, the flemoids get set in, and you return to conciusness in a slimed chamber, and all the guys you saw are slimed to the floor or wall, and you get them out and they help you continue a bit. Then you meet some flemoids, get the zorchers, and then go into the hanger where you start off the normal CQ storyline, then get flown back to ralston, then you do that there, then you get sent to the IFoC ship where you start that story, and then finish up.
Thats all.
EDIT:
http://www.slackiller.com/hlprograms.htm
heres a site with a few editing programs
http://www.fileplanet.com/32334/0/0/0/1/section/SDKs_/_Source_Code
here's the SDKs for Half Life
First off, You can probably make a door like that in GZDoom, it would just take 5 or 6 hours to get done... It's really not important to make. WTF, of cource you can make a bright map. :P I don't see why models are so important to you. Half life models sucked some what, and the main problem is that we don't have a good model maker any ways. IDK about you guys, but I had another project that I was talking about in another topic on the closing of JOL, which is sorta like this for GZdoom.
Ah. So Half-Life is open source? We can just download the engine? Also, I don't get the "...><," as I never said anything that suggested I was against what you said or that I didn't support it.
well, it seems that replica is sure full against using Half-Life or anything that is not DooM.
Now, for the existing CQ levels, yeah the door isn't important. But I'm not talking about just the original CQ levels...this is a totally different thing. I'm talking a rewritten storyline, and other small tweaks that makes this not just a higher res CQ, but a whole nother CQ encounter all together. (what I dont get is why we are considering our current engine next gen)
And IDK if you can just download the engine...but there are ways to get it. I need to find someone and ask them flat out. Developing on it sure is free...
Doom serously... NOTHING ELSE!
...
If I said I was gonna make a Half Life mod, but gave no details, would all this be happenin? no. But as soon as I mention CQ, it goes all off.
unless someone actually believes me and a few others can actually do this...go ahead and lock it. it is obvious that either noone gets the point, or they just dont wanna go there.
Bottom line: I AM WANTING TO MAKE A HALFLIFE MOD. IT WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE CQ UNIVERSE, AND INCLUDE SOME OF THE CANNONed EVENTS. IT WILL JUST BE AN ATTEMPT, AND THATS ALL IT EVER WILL BE UNLESS I GET SOME MORE SUPPORT. THIS IS NOT GOING TO REPLACE ANY MOD, OR REALLY BECOME A MOD. THIS IS AN EXPERIMENT, THAT AT THIS POINT, WILL NEVER BE.
I am a storyteller, I tell stories and give visions, which helps make up for my lack of art skill. I can tell and mostly show what I want, but need help getting it done. But due to the amount of GZDooM guys around here, I find it hard to get anywhere on even telling the story (which I got a great deep one in mind, but im gonna hafta hold it till I get at least a modeler, or learn some skills)
TGA is facing the same problem with his mod. He is trying to get an engine that was never designed for storytelling to focus on a story, but while not having the pwnzorz maping skills or stuff like that. however, he has done a great job and has made a very sucessful mod, IMO. having seen a few screens and listening to descriptions, hes got a great thing goin.
all im saying is cut me a break. I might be pressing the matter, but SRSLY. When I pop a question about a next gen something, my mind is in something next gen, not our current materials...but instead of ideas or *constructive* criticism, I just get a bunch of "GZDooM, no models, hires, <3 CQ"...the idea is possible, no? why not try it, give it a chance, or do like George Lucas did with Indiana Jones and work on it, let it gather some dust, then pull it back down and finish it? Yeah, I can tell most of us cant do coding, artwork, modeling, mapping (heck, I cant do it much), but why just shot it down? I get Legacy's mapping style. I get DooM's mapping style. But we have moved into GZDooM, and now that I dont get it, I cant do much. I do understand a few things, and I try to apply them, but comeon...gimme a chance. But if another person says "NO, GZDOOM!"...Manny Cav, I want you to lock it, delete it, something.
Quote from: Captain Ventris on October 06, 2008, 07:42:04 PM
Quote from: Nomekop on October 06, 2008, 05:49:46 PM
Half-Life 2
*covers self with lead shield for nucular bombs are exploding*
You must be a Republican.
::)
Bad joke. Not funny.
Now then! Back to the subject at hand. I think, (and Boingo has said before,) that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to capture the cartoonyness of CQ in 3D models. In Chex Trek, the models were good, but they just didn't
feel like Chex Quest to me.
Just my thoughts. They may not be your thoughts, (apparently they aren't,) so I'm not saying don't go for a HL mod, I'm just saying that it will probably feel more 'real' (for lack of a better term) than the original.
I think we should eventually start a new Chex Quest from scratch. One day, someone should, somehow, buy the title "Chex Quest" from Chex and bring it back to life. Sure, we can make our own modes and play Zdoom and watnot, but I think a whole new chex quest would be great. Not just for the PC but for systems like the PS3, Xbox 360, ect.. I wonder how Chex Quest for the Wii would work. Original and new stories, actual cut scenes, weapons level up as you use them, maybe somewhat of an RPG with different characters to play as (with individual strengths and weaknesses). Maybe even Chex Quest Mobile.
GZDooM.
Legacy is dead, Not all of our comps can support Quake and Half Life is All Cr*p.
So what if there's models? Chex Quest looks better when images are flat. Most of the time. 3D floors in levels are excempt from this rule, as they enhance the playing experience. Models... Most of the time they look like Cr*p, or they don't look CQ (Which also means they are Cr*p).
GZDooM is easy. Classical. Fun. I'm never straying. Immah sticking with Replica and Arch.
Someone's open-minded...
See, the reason I'm going away from GZDooM is because I just dont get it, just too much activation...Mapping in Legacy fits the normal doom mapping MUCH better, and I've never seen a glitch in Legacy to this day. GZDoom, while an advanced port of DooM, is still doom. It has its limitations.
And there are Quake sourceports...I've used them. HalfLife had a high resolution pack included, and if the effort was there, a Half Life mod could be upgraded to Source, and be much better.
Models...I've seen only one model ATTEMPTED, and IMO it didn't do TOO bad...it kept a cartoony feel while keeping it lowres and lowpoly.
And Flurb, half life has been ported to a few consoles. If this ever took off into something big, we might could do that too. And Half Life is a great story engine, as it is all intertwined with the game play.
...IDK, srsly, just lock it...I got one who understands but is splitting the middle, 2 on my side, 1 who sees it my way, and the rest against it.
This is not trying to be Chex Quest...This is to be something totally different, just taking place in the CQ universe.
(and as I said earlier, this wouldn't be getting so much flak if I had just mentioned that I was attempting a HL mod...but I add CQ to that and it explodes into "no, GZDooM")..
The point is to get away from DooM and its derivatives for ONCE. We have the beginings of a CQ themed Wolf 3d, and doom pushed up to its limits in GZDooM mods...however, I suggest a step across to something else, and its like I just commited treason. I didn't like GZDooM...I thought it would be good for TUCQ, but when I tried mapping I was like "Stick to Legacy". Well, little did I know that now almost everybody hates Legacy, and is going for GZDooM. I couldn't follow y'all, cuz I just couldn't map in this new format. whats the point of 532 features if ya cant use them? so I tried Wolf...I suck at graphics, and thats what most of the whole idea of that was...a graphics replacement. So I just dropped it. and all the times I brought up Legacy, I was getting told by everyone to go to GZDoom. I"M NOT USING GZDOOM. or ZDooM. and Legacy hasn't gotten there yet, so I decided to move on. I said "Half life is pretty good" and when I popped the idea of using a newer engine to create a chex quest themed game, I get dragged down to GZDooM again...
THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!! If I say "I want a new engine" why take me back to what is the current standard?! This is not a discussion of a higher resolution and quality Chex Quest, this is a discussion of a Half life mod for CQ. Dont say "Use GZDooM" cuz it is not what the topic is.
Quote from: Flurb on October 07, 2008, 02:22:57 AM
I think we should eventually start a new Chex Quest from scratch. One day, someone should, somehow, buy the title "Chex Quest" from Chex and bring it back to life. Sure, we can make our own modes and play Zdoom and watnot, but I think a whole new chex quest would be great. Not just for the PC but for systems like the PS3, Xbox 360, ect.. I wonder how Chex Quest for the Wii would work. Original and new stories, actual cut scenes, weapons level up as you use them, maybe somewhat of an RPG with different characters to play as (with individual strengths and weaknesses). Maybe even Chex Quest Mobile.
This here pretty much summarizes what I was talking about when I mentioned making a new Chex Quest from scratch.
Also, Atariangamer, I will typically honor requests from the topic starter to have a topic locked. I want to make sure you're serious about this, though. Just because some don't agree with your point of view doesn't mean it is "getting flak." Not everyone here thinks or has the same opinions as everyone else, so naturally, there's just not going to be universal agreement on every single topic brought forth. You can't blow a head gasket because a few, or, yea, several people think about something differently than you do. You created this topic to collect opinions, no? We live in a diverse world, and the many members of this website reflect that. Instead of having angst towards members or their differing opinions, let us have tolerance, or better yet, respect for those opinions.
I swear from the direction of this topic, though, that it looks more like a discussion on a presidential debate (don't get any wild ideas) than a discussion about a new Chex Quest engine or project. Serious, WUT?
...
I seriously can't believe I just read that. Not taking flak? How many posts ago did you stop reading this topic, after AG's first post? Every time he's trying to help his IDEA along, someone says, in effect if not literally, 'No, man! Changing CQ away from DooM is one of the Deadly Sins! And you're such a n00b for not seeing this.'
AtarianGamer wants to try something. He's serious about it, but a whole bunch of close-minded <rephrased to avoid ban> forum members come in yelling about how it HAS to be GZDooM and anything else is taboo. Just because he says he wants to try something new and different, people start jumping on him for thinking outside the box! Since when did that become a bad thing?
Though not completely on topic, there is also the view that Legacy is dead. The whole 'GZDooM owns everyone' quote. I thought it was just a funny quip about the engine's nice feature, but if you now DARE to use any other engine, even Legacy WITH ALL OF ITS GOOD, CLASSIC CAPABILITIES AND NICE, OLD SCHOOL MAPPING STYLE, you are immediately some sort of retarded moron with an IQ less than that of a dead dog. It seems to me that some people have forgotten where we came from! Legacy is the only reason that we got awesome games like Newmaps! I have yet to see the equal of XBolt's cutscenes in GZDooM. Sure, there are some tries at cutscenes, but they all fall short of the original feel. I am sticking with Legacy, however many people call me a newb, how ever many people look at it and say, 'LOL, wut? mod no workz in GZdoomzorz,' I DON'T BLASTED CARE!
I know, I'm overreacting. I'll be back after my temporary ban, and I won't switch positions. This is the closest thing to an admin turning a blind eye on a topic that I have ever seen on the CQFF, and I am not happy with it.
-TGA, a very annoyed and frustrated forum member. Thank you for ruining a perfectly good day.
But the problem is that i was suggesting a new chex quest, and a new engine. I brought forth the 'next gen' from doom, which was quake (and since I like the story side of games) and Half Life. I was never thinking about using any form of DooM. I was saying we need to try another engine. But, all say that they'd rather not take the doom out of CQ, and would just suggest me use GZDooM...I've already stated elsewhere that I dont like GZDooM as much, and I have the inability to map for it, making it impossible for me to "keep up with the times" (no quote, figure of speech). I presented a radical idea to actually bump us away from Doom, and instead got Doom handed right back to me. Do I have a reason to at least get a little hot? ><
And I'm not shooting down the engine of preference, I'm kinda angry that everyone either wants to go to the very top, or stay where they are. Why on earth could we not go anywhere inbetween? Most have said that we cant model...very true, but with the right tools, its almost like drawing. There has to be SOMEONE who has done something with them...I could probably get SuperChex on this with me (if he was around more often)...
but, its an idea, take it or leave it, no discussions about anything beginning or ending with doom if you please. I've changed the topic because thats the direction that seems best to go in, and I'd like to limit the other comments about (G)ZDooM...
(and about my point of view...they just shot down a whole entire ... 10 years of engines (and their games) with the statements that GZDooM is better, and the only good models are doom3 or better.)
EDIT: I see we have set of TGA as well...but he has good points.
REEDIT: TGA is also with me on the Legacy subject...Legacy is a very established engine, good feature sets, and like he said, its where we came from! But, again, if someone asks the question "which engine should I use?", 9.999 times outta 10, its GZDooM. (me an tga are that last little bit) But seriously, WTF? We got ideas, we defend them, we take flak, we shot back...and we're gettin hammered on? ... if so, i'll join tga in that tempraban)
I will say again: No one is receiving flak, being hammered, being slammed, etc., just because someone else posts something that doesn't line up with their opinion. Again, I don't think anybody here is being closed-minded just for suggesting that he use GZDoom (even though I opposed it). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and expression of it, as long as it is not harmful or defamatory to another member. If one asks for suggestions or opinions, one should expect to see something that doesn't line up with what that person thought. I didn't see anything in all of the posts that suggested that anyone thought anyone was a dead dog or any other insult. However, this topic has gone considerably downhill, and I see no end in sight, so I am now forced to lock it for reasons unrelated to Atariangamer's request.
This is ridiculous. Why don't you just make it on what you want? I'm only saying this because quake (2) and half life are not free. If you think you can replicate a CQ game on that engine then by all means go ahead. Just don't expect as many people to play it then. Yes I still use legacy. It's a good source port. Gzdoom is an advanced port which in my own opinion will have more interesting modding capabilities than half life. Overall I am just sick of such bickering on these forums. I came here and to the doom community when people literally PUMPED out artwork and had insight into the creative aspects of game modding. Now almost 90% of the community's output seems to be "making" mods by just thinking of the idea, arguing about which engine to use, and in general passing mediocre-poorly made mods and maps as finished with little attention to creativity.
And I'm not saying that I'm superior here either. I used to know the most around here about mapping, with the exception of boingo, and xbolt's scripting and strife's levels were also actually very original and well done. Now many of you know more advanced stuff that I may not know right away just because I haven't learned them.